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Cranedance- 03-29-2007
Infodumps in erotic romance
I'm new to erotic romance and still learning the conventions of the genre. One convention in particular puzzles me. Nine out of ten of the erotic romance ebooks I see start with an infodump--"As Marie scanned the men lined up at the bar, she wondered whether one of them would be the One. Ever since becoming Grand Exalted Poobah of the local werewolf tribes, no fellow werewolf had dared to take her on, and even human men avoided her, warned away by the faint aura of power she exuded. Incidentally, she grew up in Cincinnati and spent three years trekking the foorhills of India before settling in Duluth, where she met the werewolf lord who bit her. But let's go back to the studs at the bar. Don't worry, you'll get to know all about the werewolf lord in a chapter and a half." Is this because readers want to get the background over with as quickly as possible and get on to the romance? Do readers actually expect and prefer this kind of beginning? Or is it a quality control and sampling issue? I'm not trying to be snarky or judgemental, I really do want to understand what the market likes.

veinglory- 03-29-2007

I know what you mean, it drives me crazy. Gurnick the blue haired alien thought it over as he manicured his nails (or something) had to find a mate within three days of a full moon or die because of an ancient magical pact of his people (excessive details inserted here). On his planet there is a full moon every 300 years, but now he had crash landed on earth. Oh woe is me, he thought (unconvincingly) as he looked up at the full moon. I wonder if a gorgeous native Earth girl will wander past on her way to her night shift at the local Denny's. etc Some publishers *coughEllora'sCavecough* seem particularly prone to this. I still don't consider it actually compulsary to write in the genre, for any publisher. ;) It may be something that bothers writer-readers much more than reader-readers, like head hopping.

James Buchanan- 03-29-2007

I hate this. I've been dinged for not giving enough "background" on characters... because I prefer to let it evolve thorugh the story and not crash it all it at the begining. It's irritating and reminds me of everything the "literaty" authors I studied with said not to do.

cupnjava- 03-29-2007

I try to let the backstory unfold with the story during relevant bits, but I'm sure I'm guilty of infodumps.

kmfrontain- 03-29-2007

I dislike it as well. For *coughEllora'sCavecough* (lol, Em), perhaps this quick synopsis of "life before now" lets a writer get straight to sex within two pages. I suppose this might work for a reader who wants a lot of sex scenes really soon, but I prefer the story to evolve, like James said. I think that sex scenes are hotter if the reasons for the sex are better developed beforehand.

Tavaran- 03-30-2007

I guess it's preferable to three whopping chapters of backstory, which I find some print romance (and especially fantasy romance) novels are still prone to. :? But yes, I hate info dumps too, however short they are. Even worse is when they're put in dialogue: "Don't be silly, dear," said Jeelia, waving her blue-horned hands. "You know the Bronellians are only allowed to mate once a year and then only at the Bronoxx celebrations, with a lighted taper signifying the heat of our sex in one hand and a potato signifying fertility in the other - and then only with a mate we've never had before. I couldn't possibly sleep with you." I'm with James and Cup - I try to work backstory in as the novel unfolds. It's more subtle and more true to real life. If you meet someone new, you never find out everything about them in the first few minutes (well, not unless you're telepathic LOL).

cupnjava- 03-30-2007

I wonder if I'm guilty of an info dump in the fourth installment of About to Sin. *nibbles bottom lip* There's a section where Father Daniel's sister comes for a visit and I use her to reveal some of Father Daniel's backstory. Her visit lasts seven pages and bits of new information are brought out with her blabbing about how her brother was as a teenager. I wonder... How do we tell the difference between an info dump and legit backstory. The more I think about this, the finer the line feels.

Marquesate- 03-30-2007

I don't particularly mind it. I hate not knowing or edless pages of boring blurb far more.

Cranedance- 03-30-2007

I'm glad to hear infodumps aren't a requirement. They were starting to look that way. I guess it's preferable to three whopping chapters of backstory, which I find some print romance (and especially fantasy romance) novels are still prone to. Newbie fantasies of the non-romance kind do that, too. The writers feel that they have to spell out every. freaking. detail. of their lovingly overcomplicated settings before they can get on with their stories. I want to tell them, "Look, guys, you've got a hungry dragon. You've got a princess. Let's get the two in conjunction and see what happens, and you can tell me all about the last 500 years of Andorvarienielish history on the ride back to the castle." And then hope they forget all about the backstory in the heat of the moment, because it's a rare story that needs 500 years of history to work. It never works. We always get the history lesson. But at least by that time I'm invested in the characters and willing to skim. It may be something that bothers writer-readers much more than reader-readers, like head hopping. Mmm, good point. But how frustrating for writer-readers. How do we tell the difference between an info dump and legit backstory. The more I think about this, the finer the line feels. Good question. There are many things that can make an infodump into an infodump, but they all come down to: They're boring. They tell what could be shown, they give unnecessary details, they destroy tension by giving information too early, they grind the story to a stop while the author witters on about the heroine's great-great-grandfather and his hatred of the color blue. Ultimately, something's an infodump if it bores the reader. But of course, all readers are different, and like you said, the line gets pretty fine. For commercial writing, I guess the question is, what percentage of readers can you afford to bore a little to keep the rest on the same page?

vincentdiamond- 03-30-2007

One of the good things I got out of a writer's workshop I took last summer with litfic goddess Amy Bloom was this: your readers don't really care about backstory. What they want is an interesting, compelling front story happening right now with vivid details and conflict. And she's right. As an editor, I really push the authors I work with to *not* frontload the story with back story. Give me characters on a page I can care about, give me some conflict and intrigue, and give me some action or at least something interesting happening. Do NOT give me characters sitting on a sofa remembering the history of their people or about their prior relationships or blah blah blah boringness fishcakes. When I'm reading submissions for publishers, it's numbing to read first chapter after first chapter that Info Dumps. I just want to shake the author and say, "Stop it!". Give me a scene, dammit. Start with a scene, something happening in real time then, if you must, fill in some background. But oh dear dog, don't start with background. It'll kill ya on the slush pile, I promise. :)

Tavaran- 03-30-2007

How do we tell the difference between an info dump and legit backstory. The more I think about this, the finer the line feels. I know, I'm starting to *itch* about some of my writing now. LOL The way I once saw it, if you can add the words 'you know, Bob' (or whatever character name you're using) to your dialogue, it's an info dump. In other words, it's something the other character *already knows* and the only reason you're telling them again is so the reader can find out. If it doesn't fit that criteria, it probably isn't an info dump...

veinglory- 03-30-2007

Ye,s that is what I would call exposition. Things being explained for the reader that the caharcters donlt know or have no reason to be discussing right then.

cupnjava- 03-30-2007

Good question. There are many things that can make an infodump into an infodump, but they all come down to: They're boring. They tell what could be shown, they give unnecessary details, they destroy tension by giving information too early, they grind the story to a stop while the author witters on about the heroine's great-great-grandfather and his hatred of the color blue. Ultimately, something's an infodump if it bores the reader. But of course, all readers are different, and like you said, the line gets pretty fine. For commercial writing, I guess the question is, what percentage of readers can you afford to bore a little to keep the rest on the same page? I think I'm good. Yes, yes, I know every author thinks their character's backstories are oh so grand, but Father Daniel's sister has reason to be there other than providing backstory, the information provided makes Father Daniel lose his temper and it confirms some of Anand's (the hero) conclusions and provides Anand with new information. I don't think that's going to be boring to anyone who is into the story. As an editor, I really push the authors I work with to *not* frontload the story with back story. I think I'm good here too. The fourth installment is middle-ish of the story. So, I'm not frontloading the story. If the readers are still with me by this point, they've invested enough time to want to know about this. The way I once saw it, if you can add the words 'you know, Bob' (or whatever character name you're using) to your dialogue, it's an info dump. In other words, it's something the other character *already knows* and the only reason you're telling them again is so the reader can find out. If it doesn't fit that criteria, it probably isn't an info dump... I think I'm all right here too. Father Daniel and Father Daniel's sister have this information while Anand does not. I'm sure someone could see the scene and point to a paragraph or two and label it an infodump, but I don't think most people would.

scrawler- 05-31-2007

It doesn't matter if you introduce the characters right away, just make sure that the beginning can stir interest and command attention. _______________________ Clarita Download free Sylvania user manuals

Zimraphel- 06-01-2007

Hmmm, am I sensing a bias toward *coughEllora's Cavecough*? I've occasionally been guilty of the infodump, but the reader usually learns the info at the same time as the character(s), and I try not to go overboard with it.

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