[MARKET] Dark Eden Press
As mentioned over at Romance Divas, there's a new romance/erotica e-publisher that claims to be especially interested in stories that are "difficult or controversial for some. These plots and storylines aren't 'off the beaten path' but have fallen off of it." Then it goes on to say that it won't take rape stories. *Shrug*. It does have a Gay/Lesbian/Yaoi section. Submission Guidelines. About the Press.

*nods* We have a thread somewhere around here for them. LOL I've toyed with the idea of doing something for them, since they apparently (according to the elusive thread) will take twincest/brotherly incest. Only other places I know of that'll do that are Torquere and ED.

I believe other places might, it isn't one of the routine listed taboos.

Dark Eden Press-Lust and Darkness
Well I sent Lust and Darkness to Come Hither Press and they accepted it and then the company folded. However the editor suggested several places for me to resubmit my noevel to. One of them was Dark EDen Press who picked up Lust and Darkness. I am waiting for the contract now. I will keep you posted llo Vampiella

Come Hither folded? Damn, it's hard to keep up.

Come Hither has folded
Yes its true seems Nia called a hiatus to it, she may or may not restart it. We will just have to wait and see.

Re: [MARKET] Dark Eden Press
Actually Dusk, we are discussing at the moment whether we are going to keep the rule on rape or not. It is just not anything I have ever thought of as a taboo subject. I suppose for some it would be otherwise. As far as the twincest, yes we are accepting them, with both m/m, f/f/, and m/f twins. Thanks, Debra Dark Eden Press As mentioned over at Romance Divas, there's a new romance/erotica e-publisher that claims to be especially interested in stories that are "difficult or controversial for some. These plots and storylines aren't 'off the beaten path' but have fallen off of it." Then it goes on to say that it won't take rape stories. *Shrug*. It does have a Gay/Lesbian/Yaoi section. Submission Guidelines. About the Press.

I should know better than to make pointed remarks about the submission guidelines of a new press - I'm sure you guys are Googling like crazy for references to your press at the moment (as I would in your situation). "It is just not anything I have ever thought of as a taboo subject." I suppose it all comes down to what you define as taboo, doesn't it? Rape is certainly mentioned as a "no" topic in most romance press's guidelines, so I'd define it as taboo in the romance world. I write in the gay fiction community and the slash fiction community, and there rape isn't considered beyond the bounds as a literary topic. Hence my edginess on this subject, because a lot of the romance publishers don't distinguish between rape for titillation and rape to make a dramatic/themantic point. So I'm glad that, whatever you decide, you folks are giving careful consideration to this matter. And thank you for stopping by here to clarify!

You can google for that kind of thing? Damn I did not know that. Actually I have been reading here for a while and when I saw your post decided to register and answer you. I suppose it does come down to what each one decides is taboo for them. I wonder why in the gay/slash fiction it is not considered a taboo like it is in romance? I never really gave it much thought but I think you would be correct if the books I have read are any indication. I think I will add to my guidelines that rape for a dramatic/thematic point is acceptable. Do you mind if I borrow your words? Btw, I have been to your website and liked it. Especially how it is seperated with warnings for adults and for young adults. Debra I should know better than to make pointed remarks about the submission guidelines of a new press - I'm sure you guys are Googling like crazy for references to your press at the moment (as I would in your situation). "It is just not anything I have ever thought of as a taboo subject." I suppose it all comes down to what you define as taboo, doesn't it? Rape is certainly mentioned as a "no" topic in most romance press's guidelines, so I'd define it as taboo in the romance world. I write in the gay fiction community and the slash fiction community, and there rape isn't considered beyond the bounds as a literary topic. Hence my edginess on this subject, because a lot of the romance publishers don't distinguish between rape for titillation and rape to make a dramatic/themantic point. So I'm glad that, whatever you decide, you folks are giving careful consideration to this matter. And thank you for stopping by here to clarify!

Cupnjava wrote: "Things that toy with consent don't bother yaoi fans either." That's putting it mildly. :) Debra wrote: "Actually I have been reading here for a while" Now I'm even more embarrassed. :/ "I wonder why in the gay/slash fiction it is not considered a taboo like it is in romance?" Gay fiction - well, gay fiction goes so far back that its origins lie in the time (the classical era) when rape fiction was mainstream literature. I think that, in the case of slash, it's because hurt/comfort stories (tales where one character is hurt and another character comforts him) have always played such a big role in the genre. Anything that would cause harm to a character - emotional upset, physical pain, sexual abuse - has tended to crop up in slash stories a lot, in order to provide the author with an excuse for a healing scene between the lovers. Romance publishers' current aversion to rape scenes puzzled me when I first started hanging out with romance writers. I'd always gotten the impression, growing up, that the pirate ravishing his captive, or the alpha male wrestling his beloved to submission - usually in a deliberately erotic manner - was a common romance plotline. Perhaps the present taboo is a reaction against that? "I think I will add to my guidelines that rape for a dramatic/thematic point is acceptable. Do you mind if I borrow your words?" Not at all. I hope the wording proves helpful, because I just tossed it out. :) "Btw, I have been to your website and liked it. Especially how it is seperated with warnings for adults and for young adults." Thanks! I put a lot of work into trying to provide separate spaces for different folks - and I wasn't just concerned about the teens, because I know that some adult readers like to restrict their reading content and don't want to stumble onto unwanted material.

Hmm...I always assumed that with certain romances such as Pirate/captive there was always a certain amount of force. Thanks for explaining about the Yaoi as I didnt know that either. I have never gotten around to reading Yaoi. So I will definitely change the rules concerning rape now. Thanks for taking the time to explain things Dusk. I really appreciate it. Debra Cupnjava wrote: "Things that toy with consent don't bother yaoi fans either." That's putting it mildly. :) Debra wrote: "Actually I have been reading here for a while" Now I'm even more embarrassed. :/ "I wonder why in the gay/slash fiction it is not considered a taboo like it is in romance?" Gay fiction - well, gay fiction goes so far back that its origins lie in the time (the classical era) when rape fiction was mainstream literature. I think that, in the case of slash, it's because hurt/comfort stories (tales where one character is hurt and another character comforts him) have always played such a big role in the genre. Anything that would cause harm to a character - emotional upset, physical pain, sexual abuse - has tended to crop up in slash stories a lot, in order to provide the author with an excuse for a healing scene between the lovers. Romance publishers' current aversion to rape scenes puzzled me when I first started hanging out with romance writers. I'd always gotten the impression, growing up, that the pirate ravishing his captive, or the alpha male wrestling his beloved to submission - usually in a deliberately erotic manner - was a common romance plotline. Perhaps the present taboo is a reaction against that? "I think I will add to my guidelines that rape for a dramatic/thematic point is acceptable. Do you mind if I borrow your words?" Not at all. I hope the wording proves helpful, because I just tossed it out. :) "Btw, I have been to your website and liked it. Especially how it is seperated with warnings for adults and for young adults." Thanks! I put a lot of work into trying to provide separate spaces for different folks - and I wasn't just concerned about the teens, because I know that some adult readers like to restrict their reading content and don't want to stumble onto unwanted material.

Well, my own 2c... I think in het romance (and most houses that take gay romance are branches of het houses -- with a few exceptions) it plays into subjugation of women. I think het romance is trying to get away from the "he raped me I think I'll fall in love with him" vein. I've seen it explained in guidelines that rape is something the villan can engage in, but not the hero. Which would make sense if you're trying to avoide the "abuse is love" factor.

"I think het romance is trying to get away from the 'he raped me I think I'll fall in love with him' vein." Yes, and this (sorry, Cupnjava) is the form that it often takes in yaoi - at least, in Japanese yaoi. I don't know whether the Western yaoi writers have gone beyond that and are exploring negative power dynamics in a more subtle manner. I'll defend to the death any author's right to write rape=love stories, but I hate reading them (I once unsubscribed from a fiction e-mail list for that reason), and I can see why some publishers wouldn't be keen on publishing them. "I've seen it explained in guidelines that rape is something the villan can engage in, but not the hero." The only problem I have with that - as an m/m author who doesn't write for genre romance markets, though I'm quite happy when genre romance readers like what I write - is that it doesn't leave room for flawed heroes. I think there ought to be literary space provided for heroes who do really hideous things and then repent. I've written (ticks off on fingers) - okay, I've run out of fingers, but the vast majority of my stories are about men who do something incredibly awful - rape or murder or emotional manipulation - and the story revolves around either their growing understanding at the horror of what they've done or their attempts in later years to find a way to bring good into the world, in order to partially make up for their sins. Those storylines are, I think, a legitimate way in which to explore the implications of abuse. What I *don't* like is a spiffy-clean world where heroes never do anything worse than leave their socks on the floor. That sort of literature leaves readers thinking that domestic abuse and other such everyday atrocities are only committed by black-hatted villains, and that good people can never fall into the mistake of doing something really, really awful. Which is So Not True. Maybe this just isn't the sort of plotline that goes over well with romance readers, and publishers know that, so they don't solicit it. That's fine. It's the tone of righteousness that gets me in some romance presses' submission guidelines - the tone of "Only some awful, evil person would write a love story involving rape/child abuse/whatever." Meanwhile, here am I, making plans for the Italian translation of my novella about a youth who is raped in prison, and how the man who committed the rape eventually accepts the consequences of what he did and turns himself in to the authorities, and how this repentance allows a bond of friendship to grow between the youth and the man, and I'm saying, "Um . . . sorry. I'm not going to change my mind about this being an ethical storyline, so you can drop the snide remarks, please."

Writing from your soul
I beleive that writing comes from your soul, your voice is yours and yours alone. The willigness to put your thoughts on paper is your right. In my opinion there are readers for every kind of romantic, erotic, horror tale etc. I have sometimes been told my erotic writing is to purple, then some of my stories have been rejected for being to weak. I get an idea, go to the computer and flow with it. If my storie(s) get rejected I take the advice offered, make a few changes (if the prose allows it) and try other publishers. If I get published that is fantastic, if not I at least I tried, and have a story I like in a book binder to got back to later, or leave as is, marked unpublished but I love. Dusk I admire the way you stick to your guns. I simply must read one of your tales.