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veinglory >>General Writing Topics >>Why are HEA endings necessary?


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cupnjava- 09-11-2007

One of the main categories for non-HEA love stories is 'women's fiction'--which is starting to be a shelving group and is certainly a agent focus. It covers the general area of love and family-related fiction, what used to be saga etc. I don't see it being a particulalr issue that there isn't a non HEA love story category specifically. There aren;t a lot of specific categpries out there. But in most cases there is a category that is inclusive of that content. Slash is like yaoi--it is far more specific than gay fiction. people who like it seek it, I am pretty sure the readers drive the categories and the writers followm in thise cases and with HEA-romance. My main evidence being the howls when writers and publishes mislabel something to try and grab market share--hence offending the market which ain't buying any faux genre. (e.g. romances where the hero dies, 'yaoi' with a westernised aesthetic) Gonna add one...paranormal/fantasy action that becomes poorly written porn after about five or so books in the series, but still keeps the orginial genre label. Oh...I went there. Bad Cup!

veinglory- 09-11-2007

Wow look at all my typos. My new chaise is great for the artistic launguishing, but makes my bad typing even worse.

kmfrontain- 09-11-2007

Gonna add one...paranormal/fantasy action that becomes poorly written porn after about five or so books in the series, but still keeps the orginial genre label. Oh...I went there. Bad Cup! :lol: Oh, dear. Time for heavy revisions, eh, Cup?

cupnjava- 09-11-2007

Gonna add one...paranormal/fantasy action that becomes poorly written porn after about five or so books in the series, but still keeps the orginial genre label. Oh...I went there. Bad Cup! :lol: Oh, dear. Time for heavy revisions, eh, Cup? Umm...I didn't mean that I went there as in I wrote the series in question. I mean I went there as in "Yes, I did just slap that bit of snark on the table." Of course, I'd love to have that author's income. Perhaps, I'm doing something wrong. *thinks about recent reviews she's read and how she's feeling bad for the fans of the series in question* No, I'd rather have my widdle income (two whole digits!) than to try to sleep at night thinking I've done a disservice to my readers.

veinglory- 09-11-2007

Sounds rather like our friend LKH ;)

cupnjava- 09-11-2007

Sounds rather like our friend LKH ;) *whistles innocently* I know nothing of which you speak. *waves hand* Cupnjava never said anything bad about another writer in a public or semi-public place. *waves hand* Cupnjava never names the objects of her rants. *waves hand* Cupnjava is a sweet person with nothing bad to say about anyone...ever. *waves hand* These are not the sexy gay priests you're looking for.

veinglory- 09-11-2007

Time to write 'Planet of the Sexy Gay Priests'. It starts with our intrepid three-dicked were-crocodile hero driving his spaceship through a pretty nebula....

Bayou Bill- 09-11-2007

Time to write 'Planet of the Sexy Gay Priests'. It starts with our intrepid three-dicked were-crocodile hero driving his spaceship through a pretty nebula.... Sounds like a pretty nebulous opening, to me. Bayou Bill 8)

cupnjava- 09-11-2007

And the car-crash watching part of personality kicks in and makes me want to read that story. LOL!

kmfrontain- 09-11-2007

Oh! Sorry, Cup. I get it now. LKH, hmm? I had some clues about her novels just based on blurbs, and so haven't read any. Now that you've confirmed my hunch, thank you for saving me some money. ;-)

cupnjava- 09-11-2007

Oh! Sorry, Cup. I get it now. LKH, hmm? I had some clues about her novels just based on blurbs, and so haven't read any. Now that you've confirmed my hunch, thank you for saving me some money. ;-) I've not read a whole book, just excerpts and many, many hours of listening to a friend who was at one time a fan. She's read sections over the phone to me and she's past disappointed. She's angry.

Dusk- 09-11-2007

Marguerite Mignorance said: "I'm becoming more and more inclined to just write what I want to write, and tell the publishers and readers to figure it out for themselves." That's certainly what I'd do. You have to know publishers' categories to know what they're seeking, but I wouldn't write according to what publishers wanted - I'd write according to what my characters wanted, and then go looking for a publisher that wanted the same thing as my characters did. (Though I do check wordage requirements ahead of time.) "I guess I thought all 'slash' was gay fanfic" Welcome to the terminology wars. :) Here are some various ways in which slash has been defined: 1) Fan works in which heterosexual male characters in the media are imagined as experiencing same-sex attraction. This is the original definition, and everyone agrees on that one. 2) Fan works in which heterosexual male characters in the media or in literature are imagined as experiencing same-sex attraction. This definition is accepted by most fan fiction writers, but it is *not* accepted by most fan video creators (as I discovered when I hung out with those folks, mentioned that I had written slash fan fiction based on literature, and was asked, "So, have you written any fan fiction?"). 3) Fan works in which heterosexual male or female characters in the media or in literature are imagined as experiencing same-sex attraction. Femslash is included here. Old-timers hold out against this definition. 4) Fan works in which male or female characters in the media or in literature are imagined as experiencing same-sex attraction. The requirement that the characters be heterosexual in the original story is dropped. Queer As Folk fan fiction is considered slash under this definition. Old-timers hold out against this definition. 5) Same-sex attraction works that are aimed at slash readers/viewers. Divided into "original slash" and "slash fan works." This is my definition. It's very practical, and you don't have to argue over whether slash works have some inherent quality that makes them different from gay works. 6) Same-sex attraction works that are aimed at female readers/viewers. I don't like this definition because (1) it disses the male slash fans and (2) how does one then differentiate between slash and yaoi? Nonetheless, this is how the word is being used by some small presses: as a synonym for yaoi. 7) Same-sex attraction works. I haven't met any thinking person who likes this definition, but a lot of younger readers are using it this way. * * * Differences between slash and same-sex genre romance: I know these only because they've come up in discussions here. I haven't actually read any genre romance, unless one counts Mary Stewart and Diana Gabaldon. 1) No HEA requirement in slash. 2) Darker topics are not only acceptable but highly popular. Some slash publications have a "no darkfic" requirement, and there are certainly plenty of "fluff" slash stories out there that are happyhappyhappy. But (unlike in genre romance publishing), in most slash zines, submissions of erotic stories on rape, torture, and/or death would be considered perfectly acceptable. This is because . . . 3) Slash grew up as a fan genre. For this reason, early on, it developed a subgenre called hurt/comfort: one of the characters is hurt, and his lover comforts him. (In darkfic, the hurter and the comforter are sometimes the same.) You can't really understand slash unless you understand how wildly popular hurt/comfort is in the slash world. And the reason that hurt/comfort is popular is that the early TV shows that were slashed were big on hurt/comfort. Practically the only time that the guys in these shows demonstrated emotion toward one another was when one of them had been hurt. If you attend a slash video program, what you'll see is one long series of videos in which a character is in a hospital bed, while his friend holds his hand. Slashers treat this comforting as subtext for the characters falling in love with one another (or deepening their love). I gather that there are genre romance equivalents to this - the maiden being carried off by pirates, ravished, and then comforted by the hero - but I don't get the impression that hurt/comfort plays nearly as central a role in genre romance as it does in slash. "provide an example synopsis of a slash type story, and explain what about it qualifies it for the slash category." Sure. Here is The Administration series by Manna Francis (here's the site warning page), the first volume of which will be published this fall in print. The author started off in the Blake's 7 fandom, which is one of the oldest fandoms. Her setting for The Administration is clearly indebted to Blake's 7, as is the general violent atmosphere of her series. Here are the slash criteria again: 1) No HEA requirement. The series as a whole is HFN, and most of its readers agree that the main characters teeter on the point of disaster. Individual stories within the series are too gloomy to qualify as HFN. 2) Darker topics are acceptable. Yeah, boy. 3) Hurt/comfort is often central. Indeed. The main character is a torturer who must struggle to come to terms with the demands of love that he can't understand, for the simple reason that he is a psychopath. Needless to say, he does a lot of hurting in the series, including to his lover. He also gets hurt a lot by his enemies. However (unlike in a lot of gay porn), the violence isn't there just to paint a gloomy/gritty picture. The series keeps coming back to the healing process - to the post-hurt comfort serving as a way to bind the protagonist closer to his lover. (Surprise, surprise, they're in a BDSM relationship together.) I doubt very much that this series could be published by the average genre romance publisher. It's too dark, its happiness is too much mixed in with sadness, and I don't know whether genre romance readers would understand the themantic importance of all those moments of hurt/comfort. Hopefully they would - good literature reaches beyond genre boundaries. But I think it would be a case like Diana Gabaldon's novels, where the genre romance readers accepted the novels *despite* the fact that the novels broke genre romance conventions, not because of that fact.

Maura Anderson- 09-12-2007

Great definition, Dusk. I'm one of the strange (yes, shocking huh??) people who hates fanfic. I'll read slash of almost all varieties but never fanfic. I think I'm too damned stubborn to want to change the rules of an established universe. Plenty of people love it and more power to them! I definitely don't see nearly as much overt hurt/comfort in mainstream romances or the more prevalent sub-genres. I think I worry less about my sub-genre than I do about writing what I like to read. Though I would like the income of LKH - who my brother refers to as writing "bad vampire porn". LOL

sacchigreen- 09-12-2007

This evolution or morphing (or whatever) of the term "slash" still has me confused. It used to mean a certain flavor of fanfic, as far as I know, and included some f/f pairings (Xena, anybody?). Is it now, with original characters, assumed to be only m/m written by women? Is the difference between slash and gay male fiction (which is also sometimes written by women) a matter of tone, or style, or some subtle we-know-it-when-we-see-it? I think I've accepted some for my alternate history anthology, and rejected some, as well, when the tone seemed a bit too close to, well, generic romance, since that wasn't the focus of the book. I suspect that I've written some myself, without knowing it, especially a story I'll have in Best Fantastic Erotica when that finally sees print. I'd like to understand it better, though.

veinglory- 09-12-2007

I think the main thing is that original slash 'feels' like fanfic slash, just not based on previous stories. I don't know that there are specific flags for it but to my mind angst--or more specifically pathos, romance, relationship-focus, some role stereotyping, a little light Mary-Sueing etc. But no example will do all of these things. I would see gayfic, yaoi and slash as the three main queenfoms or the genre but there are may others and a lot of cross-over. I mean I just sent in a review of a Jewish/historical/litromance book to Forbidden Fruit zine which is origslash/romancy on the whole. The gay theme is enough of the thread to connect them.

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